From Scarella, posted on the Neutral Grounds forum:
You need patience, time, $$$ and devotion to truly enjoy this hobby... cuz like all hobbies, the more time and effort you put into it the more it rewards you...
i guess a good barometer for success in the hobby is whether or not you've made models before and dabbled in any sort of RPG's like Dungeons and Dragons... since GW is pretty much a mix of both...
Well one thing to do is have a hobby-buddy when getting into GW... so you can always play vs. someone who is just starting, build stuff at the same time, and if the forces can link-up like marines and guard, you both can tag-team vs. one of them bigger armies...
And if you like the armies in the starter sets go for em, like the upcoming fantasy one will have 100+ figs in it... dwarves and goblins so loads of coolness, and mind you not 100+ of boring "green army men" style figs at that... but ace looking figs...
also don't believe everything you hear about "suggestions" or what units to take... the community is pretty small so there are certain local trends for both games and that's where these assumptions are from, but Fantasy Battle (FB) lends itself to a more rock-paper-scissors approach since most of the armies are represented in the playing groups, while 40K it's space marines or chaos space marines everywhere...
Once you've decided what game you like, pick a race based on models you like... most armies can adopt a wide range of styles with notable exceptions like there is no shooty-chaos fantasy battle army, nor an all-cav skaven army... pretty much by choosing an army with looks and background that you like, regardless if you win or lose at least you like your army...
The Games-workshop website has a nice intro section for both games and and focuses on in the individual armies as well
For Warhammer 40K Army building:
http://uk.games-workshop.com/warhammer40000/army-building/
For Warhammer Fantasy Army Building link:
http://uk.games-workshop.com/warhammer/army-building/
Look for the "Getting started with XXXX-army" under each army heading for a intro about getting an army started... and if these articles seem like too much reading then perhaps reconsider since there's more required reading once you're underway in the hobby...
And for the tough part... painting... well i'll go out on a limb here and say if you don't have any model-hobby experience it will be an uphill battle for you... hobby experience being model planes, tanks, gundams, tamiya 4WD , anything crafty... best first purchases are typically if you are not getting armies in the starter sets or a battleforce... would be reg-box+army book+and basic painting supplies... I know many guys over there suggest cheaper hobby alternatives, remember though that some of these guys are great modellers and experienced painters... the GW paints are easy to use and are great for matching up with the pics.... true you can achieve decent effects with cheaper alternatives but as someone just getting started in the hobby, perhaps not...
Getting into the whole GW stream of things may seem daunting at first, but just have patience and adopt a squad, then character, then squad, then character line of painting and purchases, don't buy everything at once... you'll get overloaded... the reason for starting out on a squad is since most starting people need to get the basics of painting, and starting on your army commander ain't the way to go... as you progress your painting will get better, and army commanders are loaded with details... might as well start on the soldiers and then paintup a character fig/vehicle/warmachine/etc., when your skills are developing...
hope that helps.... and about the $$$ part, just sell one of your kidneys you have two of them anyways hee hee
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From Kim, posted on the Neutral Grounds website:
1. Is there a plastic version for the Warhammer Fantasy? If there is, is it significantly cheaper? With my limited resources, this is an important question.
There are plastic models and there are metal models. Such applies for both 40K and WFB. Cheaper? None of our geeky hobbies is ever cheap (CCGs are way more expensive than miniature wargaming). It's all just a matter of proper allocation of funds.
2. Should I buy the army books first before the figs? How will I know if the army I picked is right for me? I mean, I like some of the orc figs & most of the ogre figs...I don't know their strengths & weaknesses.
Instead of aiming for winning, field an army that you'll enjoy building and painting. Any army you'll play with becomes competitive given the right treatment. Asking the veterans also help.
3. There is a smaller point army for Warhammer Fantasy which is basically dungeon-crawling with figs. Alam ko meron nito e. Magandang stepping stone to WFB for the cost-conscious.
There was but I forgot the name. The level-up-xp-gain version of WFB is Mordheim, Inquisitor for 40K. Both are rarely played these days though. Veterans with huge armies can always downgrade into smaller pointage games. Aim for a small 500-point skirmish group, but don't expect to field uber-strong (Lord-level) characters on small pointage games though.
4. In lieu with question#2, is it possible to combine diff. races?
More often than not, you are limited to a single race when duking out with big armies. There are mercenary options that you can add to some armies like Cavalry or Ogres, but not all. There are numerous troop choices for each army available already anyway.
5. With my questionable painting skills, is there a paint remover that is applicable to this hobby?
Prestone brake fluid. Tried and tested.
6. How do you do those cool-looking bases? Where do you get the materials (greeneries, rocks, etc.)
There are many many options on this one - cork, eggshell, gravel, putty, cardboard. There are also many sites online that can help you with this.
7. Marami pa bang naglalaro ng WFB at 40K now? (Are there many WFB and 40K players now?)
Marami naman (Plenty enough). Population of players depend on venue though.
Newbie questions answered here
Expensive?
From on old post on the Neutral Grounds forum
Expensive? All hobbies are expensive. Yun nga lang, with miniature wargaming, the initial cash output is greater than other hobbies.
With any of the booster games like Clix or CCGs, you have to keep buying to keep your card library up-to-date. With miniatures, the only expense you'll encounter after finishing your army would be --- ideally nothing. That is, unless you want to expand your current army and/or start a new army. What you buy today will still be usable years later. I've been at the hobby for a good six years running. Yes, rules sometimes change, but very rarely (If you play CCGs, this is something you're used to). None of the models become Type 1 or Type 2. Some models get resculpts but it'll fall unto you if you buy that or not, BUT it will have no effect on the game. If you bought a Space Marine Rhino in 1999, you can still use that model in your games now.
If you're interested in getting into mini-wargaming, you have to be serious about the decision. Starting in the hobby and then quitting midway will end you with some pretty expensive paperweight or airgun targets. And unless you paint and/or convert reeeally well, you WILL have a hard time selling your existing used models (unless of course you find a noob who'll buy them off you).
Here are some FACTS that you will face in this hobby:
- YOU WILL PAINT - whether you're a masterclass painter or a grade school kid, you'll have to get your models painted somehow. Some will have their models painted by someone for a fee. Some will stick it out and paint on their own. I did the latter. I painted badly when I started. So bad that they're all Prestoned now and waiting for a spanking new paintjob. Now, I can say that my stuff is above average. You get that from constant practice. Don't be discouraged if your first paintjob ends up like some schoolboy art project. Most of the good ones start that way.
Playing in Warhammer tourneys, you get judged not only by how you win but also by how your army is painted. If you had that army painted by someone else, you won't get top prize. Well, for me, part of the allure of this hobby is customizing your own models anyway.
If you're not too keen about this (moreso if you're just into the "gaming" aspect), put some consideration into this before you spend your hard-earned money.
- YOU WILL BUY TOOLS - yes, tools. Tools like side cutters, exacto knives, pin vises, a toolbox even. Then again, if you have your army painted by someone else, you'll skip this part. BUT if you put it onto yourself to paint your own stuff and improve your craft, don't scrimp on this aspect. Talent enough will also require good tools to produce a good result. I'll be posting more on this on the website I'm planning.
- YOU WILL CARRY MANY MODELS AROUND - this is a difficult issue if you're a commuter, but I myself have gotten used to this already. Be sure to warn your friendly Manong Guard not to poke the models with his goddamn stick though LOL!
- YOU WILL NEED A TABLE WITH TERRAIN - most of the big Neutral Grounds branches have tables and terrain ready for you to play on. That, or you can build your own gaming table. That's another topic altogether.
- YOU WILL READ THROUGH A LOT OF STUFF - rulebooks, codices/army books, magazines, the Internet -- this hobby has a bit of technicality infused into it, so unless you read up, you might get surprised by some sly move.
"Can you do that?"
"Yeah, I can. The rules for this was released on the GW website last month. Here's the printout."
- YOU WILL NEED AN OPPONENT WHO'LL MATCH YOUR POINTAGE - let's face it, only a blessed few can buy a whole force in one trip to NG. For the rest of us, we start small force battles. Experienced players can downgrade the pointage of their forces to match yours so don't worry. The issue here is that you come around lugging your big bag of nicely-painted models then no one shows up. Sched your matches properly. Also call up the shop to see if there's no big tourney going. WH games need big tables, and not all the tables (or space for that matter) become available when big tourneys of other games are ongoing.
- YOU WILL LOSE - this is primarily a gentleman's game (despite the loud cussing by some of the veterans). Some people play to win, some play for fun. Some play with their heart, some play with numbers in their head. But whatever type you fall into, there are days when dice just roll bad. Just be sure when you lose, lose graciously. No one wants to play with a whiny bastard just because he lost. The WH community isn't a big one - and how you handle yourself with your games will be known by your opponents.
- YOU WILL BE TEMPTED - if you got cash to spend, go spoil yourself and buy stuff. If not, then just save up. The hobby won't go away. How far you'll go in the hobby will depend on your decisions. What everyone else says are just guidelines.
Interested?
Going into six years into this hobby, I've come across many people who've shown interest in miniature wargaming. Here in the Philippines, the common mentality is that new guys always ask what is the strongest/most winning-est/best army? And from the veterans that I've known, some may have nice answers, some might not. My answer is one that's not nice:
Goddammit! If there was only ONE army that ONLY WINS ALL THE TIME, then everyone here would be playing ONLY THAT army, now wouldn't they?!?
Jeez! If only most new guys had enough balls as they have interest, then it'd make this hobby more interesting!
A sad reality about Pinoys is that we're a tad more competitive than anyone else in the world. We always have a chip on our shoulder pushing us to be "a little better in something" than the next white guy, black guy, aborigine or eskimo. That's not so bad isn't it? But mix in the in-bred lazyass nature of Pinoys, THEN you get why most new guys ask that dumb question.
I understand that investing in a hobby only to lose and lose isn't such a hot idea. I should know. I WAS exactly just like that years back when I started. And I don't want to see every new dude being like that.
Like I say to all new guys, "get an army that you know that you'll enjoy painting and building and collecting." Noobs won't understand that on the onset. Personally, those who don't understand it aren't worth the bother. These are the ones who may have bought and put together an army, then after a discouraging losing streak of 2 months, he decides to pack up, quit and sell his badly-done models. He then proceeds to succumb to regret and starts blaming the game and the players for causing him such misery. Well I say, fuck all these whiny losers!
Pick an army, build it, paint it nice and make it win!
You lose a game, that can be accredited to being new. You lose for three months of constant gaming and THEN quit? Then I suggest you shove your fingers up your ass and enjoy a chocolate-covered pretzel, you dumb shit, because I'm sure that's all you're good at. You start blaming your losses at other people is just plain pathetic. Go back to whatever shithole you came from and stop infecting my gaming community.
If you're stil reading and haven't thought about flaming me, then I'm sure you understand my colorful sentiments. In the Philippines, miniature wargaming is a very niche game. VERY few people play it, even fewer on a regular basis. Personally, I prefer it that way. Quality over quantity.
SO if you're a noob and you're still interested after reading all that crap, build your 2K WFB or 40K or 500 WM and drop me a line. Show no quarter, because I'll be out to hit you with a bitchin' smackdown!
The Price To Pay
Alright, here's the deal. I won't fool you into believing what's what with how much you're gonna spend with a miniature hobby. If you're serious with the hobby, you will spend.
Don't take it too bad. Trust me, ANY hobby is expensive. It's just varies on certain aspects. With CCGs, the startup is affordable, but the long-term expense becomes taxing. New expansions within a year force you to keep your current collection up-to-date. Either you spend a lot and keep buying booster pack after booster pack, or you sell off your cards to earn back some amount of money (sometimes even more if you're good) that you spent on them.
I'm not trying to discourage people from playing CCGs. My roots at number-crunching can be traced to MTG. But I'm not a rich person. Buying boosters constantly is something that is just impossible for me. And I totally suck at selling stuff. That basically just made playing on Type 2 tourneys unattainable for me. And when I decided to stick to playing just Type 1, someone out there was hoarding all the Tundras, so I wasn't able to put together a real nice Type 1 deck without those nice cards. The same goes for Clix games. It's the same booster mentality. Sad to say, I'm just inept at an environment.
What I wanted was a game where having a super rare card did not give you a straight advantage. I wanted a game where buying and buying did not give you a straight advantage. I also wanted a game where you can be creative and still be competitive tactically. If you feel that way, then miniature wargaming is also for you.
The initial startup for this hobby is costly. Not only do you need to buy expensive miniatures, you still have to invest on hobby supplies as well. I will discuss about this in great depth in a future article.
Bottom line is, people shouldn't turn away from miniature wargaming because of it being expensive. EVERY other hobby out there is even more expensive than this, you just don't know it yet.
What Is Miniature Wargaming?
As taken from Wikipedia, Miniature wargaming is a form of wargaming designed to incorporate miniatures or figurines into play. The miniatures used represent troops or vehicles (such as tanks, chariots, aircraft, ships, etc.). The games may reflect historical situations and armies, or may be futuristic or fantasy-based.
Many miniatures games are played on a floor or tabletop, with terrain represented by miniature scenery (hills, forests, roads, etc.). In this respect, miniatures wargames theoretically offer players great freedom of play, as well as a visual spectacle. Movement of the miniatures is regulated using a tape-measure. However, like boardgames, miniature games can also be played using gridded terrain (demarcated into squares or hexagons) or even gameboards.
One of the main reasons people play miniature games, as opposed to computer or boardgames, is because many find the tactile element of soldiers and scenery on a tabletop to be aesthetically pleasing; additionally, some hobbyists enjoy the challenge of painting miniatures and constructing scenery. Miniature wargaming may be seen as combining many of the aesthetics of tabletop train modeling with an open strategy game predominantly, though not exclusively, with a military theme.
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In the words of a great mini-wargamer himself, Jay Estaris: it is the hobby where grown men get to play with little toy soldiers on top of a large table. They move the soldiers around and pretend that they’re generals in a small war.
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Whatever definition, for me, I'm in it because it's fun!
First Post
Hello. Welcome to Miniature Wargaming. Everything's still under construction but I hope to put up some more material real soon. Please check back for updates.